When veganism hits the mainstream media, you can almost hear the collective cheer from the global vegan community. Tweeters tweet and Facebookers, well, post. People who hadn’t even considered veganism, will begin, perhaps, to understand why they should. Ellen flies the vegan flag regularly, while Oprah flirts with it every now and again. All the while, their audiences begin to understand why being vegan helps animals, the planet and our health.
The most recent media personality to explore veganism is Martha Stewart, who, only last week, invited some fabulous vegan types onto her show to talk about animals, health and good vegan food.
The woman who takes pride in making animal roasts and other such meals wanted to explore the trend that’s growing in popularity for ethical and health reasons. With Farm Sanctuary president and co-founder Gene Baur, Twitter co-founder Biz Stone and Veganist author Kathy Freston, Martha put on her vegan hat, with the show educating millions as to why being vegan is a very good idea.
I’m excited to bring you a guest post (below) from Farm Sanctuary‘s Gene Baur, who wanted to share his thoughts, post-show, with Diary of a Vegan readers. If you have a question for Gene, please post in the comments…
This week marked an important milestone for farm animals. Martha Stewart, America’s domestic icon and the woman who wrote the book on modern living, devoted an entire hour-long episode of The Martha Stewart Show (Hallmark Channel, 10 AM ET/9 AM C) to the pleasures and benefits of living a compassionate vegan lifestyle. I was honored to be a part of this groundbreaking show, along with my good friends and fellow vegans Twitter Co-Founder Biz Stone, who will serve as the Honorary Chair of Farm Sanctuary’ s 25th Anniversary Gala in Los Angeles on September 24, and health and wellness guru Kathy Freston, author of the New York Times best-seller Veganist.
Millions of viewers watched as Biz showed Martha how to prepare one of his favorite vegan dishes — Seitan Bourguignon — and told her about how his life changed after visiting the New York Shelter of Farm Sanctuary and looking into the eyes of a cow. They listened as Kathy explained why our bodies are better able to process plant-based foods rather than animal-based ones. With humor, personal anecdotes and factual expertise, Biz and Kathy showed Martha — and the people watching at home across the U.S. — how fun and easy veganism can be.
For my part, viewers were introduced to Persia, the sheep who Martha adopted through our Adopt-A-Farm Animal Project back in February, and the life she’s enjoying at Farm Sanctuary. I talked about the horrific treatment of animals on factory farms and how eating plants instead of animals is the best way people can protect them from this abuse. I told Martha about my dear friend Opie, who I found as a calf dying of hypothermia at a stockyard with a temperature so low it wouldn’t even register on the thermometer. Viewers saw incredible “before” and “after” photos of Opie, who with proper care and support pulled through and grew up to weigh nearly 3,000 pounds and to enjoy a long, happy life at Farm Sanctuary.
When programs like “The Martha Stewart Show” devote valuable air-time to the plight of farm animals and the benefits of veganism, a powerful message is planted in the public consciousness demonstrating that these issues are important and worthy of our consideration. Stewart has built a media empire based on her uncanny ability to influence the tastes and opinions of consumers. When she speaks about the importance of showing compassion for farm animals, millions of people — many of whom may never have considered these issues before — listen. Some might decide to go vegan right on the spot while others may decide to “lean into” veganism — as Kathy so wisely puts it — by reducing the amount of animal products they consume. All of this is progress and means that less animals will suffer. Martha Stewart’s vegan show was a major event, as a mainstream audience was exposed to compassionate living ideas, and that’s a very good thing.
Gene Baur, pictured above, is the president and co-founder of Farm Sanctuary, the nation’s leading farm animal protection organization. A vegan since 1985, he lives in Washington, D.C. and campaigns to raise awareness about the negative consequences of industrialized factory farming and our cheap food system. He has initiated groundbreaking legislative action to raise awareness and prevent factory farming abuses, and is author of the best-selling book Farm Sanctuary: Changing Hearts and Minds About Animals and Food.
Photo (above): Derek Goodwin/Farm Sanctuary
Main photo: David Russell/The Martha Stewart Show
One of my best friends and favourite intuitive healers is Rebecca Dettman. If you haven’t checked out her Psyched in Stilettos blog and her new self-titled website, RebeccaDettman.com, both are treasure troves of transformative spiritual information. I always look forward to Rebecca’s weekly newsletters, from which the following guest post was first published…
Is that a dead animal on your face?…and lying in your bathroom? Let me be really, really brutally clear about this. L’Oreal tests their products on animals. So does Shiseido. Not to mention Covergirl, Pantene, Clairol, Johnson & Johnson’s, Oil of Olay, Max Factor and Oral-B. Disgusted? Shocked? You should be – especially if you could see what happens to our poor furry friends inside those horrible, godforsaken laboratories. 
While the exact number of animals used for cosmetic testing is unknown, it has been estimated that around 38,000 animals are used and killed in the development of cosmetics in the European Union every year. “The problem is that most cosmetic products are imported from countries where animal testing is very widespread,” says Helen Roser, Chief Executive Officer of the Australian Association for Humane Research, “and so the chances are that many of the cosmetic products that we use here everyday have been tested on animals.
“If someone sues a cosmetic company because they have had a bad reaction to its product, then the company has a better defence if it is able to claim that the product had been tested on animals and found to be safe. However, different species have different genetic make up and animals do not provide an accurate measure as to whether a product is safe for humans to use.”
Did you know this?
The terms ‘not tested on animals’ and ‘against animal testing’ on cosmetics packaging aren’t regulated – thus manufacturers can legitimately claim that a finished product has not been tested on animals, despite the fact that the ingredients used to make the finished product have been tested on animals.
The good news (thank God):
The ever-progressive European Union (who have also banned other nasties, such as DBT in nail polish – get with it Australia!!) is bringing a new ban on the testing of cosmetic ingredients into place in 2009. In addition, there will also be a ban on the sale of cosmetic products and ingredients tested on animals for all but three tests (reproductive toxicity, repeat dose toxicity and toxicokinetics) from 2009. “The ban will have a huge impact on the amount of products available to use that are cruelty free,” says Roser. “It will also be likely to put more pressure on other countries, like the United States, to ban product testing.”
Plus, check the Choose Cruelty Free website before you buy, as every brand on their Preferred Product List has filled out a comprehensive legally-binding questionnaire re: their the ingredients, formulation, manufacture, packaging and more. “If a company is on our list, you can be as certain as you can be that they have not been involved in animals testing,” says the site’s Cherie Wilson. “If a company is not on the list, it means they test or have declined to answer our questions. We have contacted every company we know of or that has been referred to use by consumers.”
So, you want to know the animal friendly beauty brands? Try these for starters:
A’kin
Al’chemy
Australis
e.l.f.
Guinot
In Essence Aromatherapy
Le Tan
Springfields
Musq
Trilogy
Rabbit photo courtesy laverrue
Main photo courtesy dreamglow pumpkincat210
Growing up, I used to love the smell of freshly washed towels. Whenever the breeze would blow as they hung on the line to dry, I’d get a waft of fragrance that somehow made me think of all things lovely: a warm bath on a cold winter night or coming home after being away on vacation.
What I didn’t know back then is that comforting, fresh smell was actually nasty, toxic chemicals… chloroform, ethyl acetate and limonene (among many others)… dressed up as flowers, luring me in, to believe that I was as close to a lavender field as I could get without actually being in one.
Besides the carcinogenics, I also recently found out (thanks to www.thevegandecision.com) there’s another great reason to stop buying and using fabric softeners: animal tallow, or animal fat, if you will. Common, every day fabric softeners are a recipe made from dead animals and toxic chemicals, not a lavender field or bowl of fresh lemons in sight.
So what does this mean for the planet and our own health? These chemicals are detrimental to marine life, as they enter our waterways (whatever we put in a washing machine, toilet, dishwasher ends up in the environment). But once the towels and clothes are dry, how harmful can these chemicals be to our health? Extremely. Anything worn close to, or applied to the skin ends up in the blood stream.
Here’s an excerpt from Natural News:
Most fabric softener products—dryer sheets, for example—are positioned as being at least somewhat earth friendly thanks to a claim in the ingredients list that reads “biodegradable fabric softeners.” Unfortunately, the second ingredient in fabric softeners is “fragrance,” and the fragrance chemicals are so highly toxic that they cause cancer in humans and are extremely destructive to aquatic ecosystems downstream. Merely drying your clothes with common dryer sheets, then washing them the next time you do laundry unleashes a chemical tidal wave of toxicity that is shockingly harmful to (you and) the environment.
According to the Environmental Protection Agency (US), here’s a list of what you can expect to find:
ALPHA-TERPINEOL Causes CNS (central nervous system) disorders… “highly irritating to mucous membranes” …”Aspiration into the lungs can produce pneumonitis or even fatal edema.” Can also cause “excitement, ataxia (loss of muscular coordination), hypothermia, CNS and respiratory depression, and headache.” “Prevent repeated or prolonged skin contact.
BENZYL ACETATE Carconigenic (linked to pancreatic cancer). “From vapors: irritating to eyes and respiratory passages, exciting cough.” “In mice: hyperanemia of the lungs.” “Can be absorbed through the skin causing systemic effects.” “Do not flush to sewer.”
BENZYL ALCOHOL Causes CNS disorders … “irritating to the upper respiratory tract” …”headache, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, drop in blood pressure, CNS depression, and death in severe cases due to respiratory failure.”
CAMPHOR Causes CNS disorders. On EPA’s Hazardous Waste list. Symptoms: “local irritant and CNS stimulant” …”readily absorbed through body tissues” …”irritation of eyes, nose, and throat” …”dizziness, confusion, nausea, twitching muscles and convulsions”. “Avoid inhalation of vapors.”
CHLOROFORM Neurotoxic. Anesthetic. Carcinogenic. on EPA’s Hazardous Waste list. “Avoid contact with eyes, skin, clothing. Do not breathe vapors …Inhalation of vapors may cause headache, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, drowsiness, irritation of respiratory tract and loss of consciousness.” “Inhalation can be fatal.” “Chronic effects of overexposure may include kidney and/or liver damage.” “Medical conditions generally aggravated by exposure: kidney disorders, liver disorders, heart disorders, skin disorders.” “Conditions to avoid: Heat…” Listed on California’s Proposition 65.
ETHYL ACETATE Narcotic. On EPA’s Hazardous Waste list. “…Irritating to the eyes and respiratory tract” …”may cause headache and narcosis (stupor)” …”may cause anemia with leukocytosis and damage to liver and kidneys”. “Wash thoroughly after handling.”
LIMONENE Carcinogenic. “Prevent its contact with skin or eyes because it is an irritant and sensitizer.” “Always wash thoroughly after using this material and before eating, drinking …applying cosmetics. Do not inhale limonene vapor.”
LINALOOL Narcotic. Causes CNS disorders. …”respiratory disturbances” …”Attracts bees.” “In animal tests: ataxic gait, reduced spontaneous motor activity and depression …depressed heart activity …development of respiratory disturbances leading to death.”
PENTANE “Danger – Harmful if inhaled …Avoid breathing vapor.” “Inhalation of vapors may cause headache, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, drowsiness, irritation of respiratory tract and loss of consciousness. Repeated inhalation of vapors may cause CNS depression. Contact can cause eye irritation. Prolonged exposure may cause dermatitis (skin rash).”
Relevant Facts:
- CNS = Central Nervous System, your brain and spine.
- CNS disorders include: Alzheimer’s Disease, Attention Deficit Disorder, Dementia, Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson’s Disease, Seizures, Strokes, Sudden Infant Death Syndrome.
- CNS exposure symptoms include: aphasia, blurred vision, disorientation, dizziness, headaches, hunger, memory loss, numbness in face, pain in neck and spine.
In a sleepy lagoon off the coast of Japan was once a shocking secret. A secret that a few desperate men made sure would be no longer kept hidden from the world: thousands of dolphins were, and still are, being captured and sold to the world’s theme parks. Those who don’t make the cut are horrifically tortured and slaughtered—their mercury-laden meat sold under the guise of being “acceptable” flesh for consumption to an unsuspecting Japanese public. It’s a real life horror story—one that is now well and truly public.
The men who risked their lives to tell the world about this atrocity include Louise Psihoyos, a director with a cause who has not only caught the world’s attention, but also the Academy of Motion Pictures, Arts and Sciences, with his film, The Cove, which is up for best documentary at the Awards this weekend (March 7).
The Cove begins in Taiji, Japan, where former dolphin trainer Ric O’Barry has come to set things right after a long search for redemption. In the 1960s, it was O’Barry who captured and trained the five dolphins who played the title character in the international television sensation “Flipper.” But his close relationship with those dolphins – the very dolphins who sparked a global fascination with trained sea mammals that continues to this day — led O’Barry to a radical change of heart. One fateful day, a heartbroken Barry came to realise that these deeply sensitive, highly intelligent and self-aware creatures so beautifully adapted to life in the open ocean must never be subjected to human captivity again.
It wasn’t until years after this realisation that Ric met Louie and the idea for The Cove was born, and more importantly, put into action.
With Jim Clark, Louie also created The Oceanic Preservation Society (OPS), in 2005. The non-profit organization provides an exclusive lens for the public and media to observe the beauty as well as the destruction of the oceans, while motivating change.
I recently caught up with Louie to talk about what it took to plan, shoot and promote the eco-thriller film. Stay tuned for an interview with Ric O’Barry in the coming days.
Firstly Louie, congratulations in such an incredible documentary. How long did it take to make from idea to final print?
The film took about three and a half years to make, but Laurie David, who produced An Inconvenient Truth told me a year ago that when you’re done making a documentary you’re only halfway there. The film came out a year ago this week and I’m still out promoting the movie. But fortunately most of the traveling is going to film festivals around the world that are in amazing beautiful places meeting great people who are passionate about films so I’m learning a lot at the same time, and not just talking about our film. And at the film festivals the film has been received very well, mostly standing ovations. Even at the Tokyo Film Festival the response was amazing – we had as much media coverage as Avatar.
How did the idea evolve?
I had just started a non-profit organization called The Oceanic Preservation Society (OPS) with the help of my dive friend, Jim Clark who is an extraordinary visionary. When president John F. Kennedy called for Americans to put a man on the moon back in 1961, it was Jim, at age 26 created and sped the computers to make that possible. Jim is now an inventor and a venture capitalists, kind of a serial entrepreneur. He founded Silicon Graphics, which was the Apple Computer of it’s day, the chip Jim built allowed objects to be constructed in 3-D which allowed movies like Jurassic Park to be made. The day he quit that business he started Netscape, the first commercial Internet browser which was the first avenue that many of us got on the so-called information super highway. The third billion-dollar company he created he joked that he started to prove that the first two were not just luck, but I used information from that medical website to save my mother’s life last year. When Jim funded OPS to make films and create still images to try to create awareness about ocean issues, I reminded him that saving the oceans wasn’t going to be a billion dollar industry and he told me, “I’m not worried about making money, just make a difference.”
There is much responsibility in being entrusted with funds from a friend and a man I regard so highly with so many personal accomplishments but making a difference is the driving motivation for OPS to do everything we do. I always told the film crew that we’re not making a movie, we’re starting a movement to save the oceans. This higher goal informs all of our decisions.
How did you come to meet Ric O’Barry?
Two months after starting OPS I was at a marine mammal conference in San Diego and Ric O’Barry was supposed to be the keynote speaker at the event of mostly PhD speakers. I was looking forward to hearing someone from popular culture speak after a week of quite a few fairly boring talks. But at the last moment, the sponsor of the event, SeaWorld, cut him from the program. I was curious why so I called Ric and he said that they wouldn’t let him talk because he was going to speak about the captive dolphin industry and the world’s largest slaughter of dolphins on the planet.
I had never heard about the captive dolphin industry nor killing of dolphins so I asked him who was doing anything about it and he said right now it was just him and he was going next week, would I like to come to Taiji with him. Driving into Taiji was like driving into a ready made horror film set. On the surface they appear to love dolphins and whales, there’s even a sign coming into town with Anime-style drawings of dolphins that says in English, “We love dolphins.” However right in the center of town lies the Cove. This is in a Japanese National Park, where even Japanese people can’t get into because of the steel gates, keep-out signs, barbed wire, dogs and guards. This is the cove where these crimes against nature and humanity occur – right in the middle of a nature preserve!
Only a day after I watched The Cove, a documentary about dolphins being captured and horrendously slaughtered in the Japanese town of Taijii, a good friend Tweeted “killer whales have rights”. Over on Google News, it was being reported how a killer whale—a member of the dolphin family—at SeaWorld in Orlando, Florida had killed its trainer.
As television screens around the world tonight flash news of this tragedy, it brings an immensely important issue to light: animals in captivity and the cruelty that is imposed on them in order to perform in the name of the almighty dollar.
President of SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment Jim Atchison said the company was investigating the incident and would review its operating standards. How’s this for a review, Jim: release the animals back to their natural habitat. Get a job doing something that doesn’t hurt and exploit animals.
“Nothing is more important than the safety of our employees, guests and the animals entrusted to our care,” he said. If this were truly the case, Jim, you wouldn’t be caging animals in bodies of water that are nothing more than a puddle, surrounded by slabs of cold concrete—no resemblance to their ocean home (never mind that we humans have done our best at turning that into a junk yard too).
It’s not the first time these beautiful animals have back-lashed against their human torturers. The video above was shot in Southern California in 1972 (click here to view if the above doesn’t load). As part of a publicity stunt a park secretary took a “joy ride” on the back of an 8,000 pound killer whale. A whale that had its breaking point. It attacked the girl. She survived. But what about the whale? More torture ahead?
Something urgently needs to change. That change can only start with you and me. Governments won’t change it. Theme parks won’t change it. Circuses won’t change it. The public needs to stop supporting these ridiculous displays of cruelty masked as “entertainment for the whole family”.
Ric O’Barry, who was a dolphin trainer for the Flipper television series in the 1960s and appears in The Cove, says that parks and zoos “want you to think that God put (dolphins) there or (that) they rescued them … if people knew the truth, they wouldn’t buy a ticket.”
In the wild, orcas and dolphins swim up to 100 miles per day, according to People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA). But captured dolphins are confined to tanks that may be only 24 feet long, 24 feet wide, and six feet deep. They navigate by echolocation—bouncing sonar waves off other objects to determine their shape, density, distance, and location—but in tanks, the reverberations from their own sonar bounce off the walls, driving some dolphins insane.
Jacques Cousteau said that life for a captive dolphin “leads to a confusion of the entire sensory apparatus, which in turn causes in such a sensitive creature a derangement of mental balance and behaviour.” Tanks are kept clean with chemicals that have unknown side effects. Because of high chlorine levels in their tanks, dolphins at the Clearwater Marine Aquarium were unable to open their eyes, and their skin began to peel off.
Killer whales, or orcas, are members of the dolphin family. They are also the largest animals held in captivity. In the wild, orcas stay with their mothers for life. Family groups, or “pods,” consist of a mother, her adult sons and daughters, and her daughters’ offspring. Members of the pod communicate in a “dialect” specific to that pod. Dolphins swim together in family pods or tribes of hundreds. Capturing even one wild orca or dolphin disrupts the entire pod. To obtain a female dolphin of breeding age, for example, boats are used to chase the pod to shallow waters, where the animals are surrounded with nets that are gradually closed and lifted onto the boats. Unwanted dolphins are thrown back. Some die from shock or stress, and others slowly succumb to pneumonia when water enters their lungs through their blowholes.
Helping doesn’t have to mean donating hundreds or thousands of dollars in the hope someone else will fix the problem. Helping starts with word of mouth. Tell your friends, your neighbours. Heck, even tell a stranger if you feel the urge. Capturing, breeding and torturing these majestic, wild animals for a few kicks and giggles and a lot of cold hard cash is no longer tolerable. It really never has been. We—you and me—are the only chance these beautiful animals have. Please, do your bit, however big or small, to make a difference in the lives of these animals.
Head to PETA, check out the Oceanic Preservation Society for tips on how to help, or sit down and have a chat with your kids to explain why sea parks, circuses and the like are not cool. It all makes a difference.
Also, check back in the coming days to read my interview with The Cove‘s Ric O’Barry and Louie Psihoyo.
At some point in our lives, if not often, we feel and/or face fears. Fear of what others think of us, fear of dis-ease, fear of terrorism. It’s how we decide to act (or not) every day that can move us closer or further away from our true, fear-less, nature. Sometimes, a little guidance can be a big help…
1. Stop eating animals.
Just as we feel fear, so too do animals. While they may not function with the same mental intellect, we are emotionally linked. When a cow or sheep is held in putrid, cramped quarters or goes to slaughter, it too feels fear—a negative emotion that is, no doubt, transferred on some level to the person who eats the animal. As a human race, we are feasting on fear every time we eat a piece of, particularly factory-farmed, animal flesh. A question to contemplate: does the amount of animal products consumed by humans contribute largely to our everyday fears? Check out Jonathan Safran Foer’s Eating Animals.
2. Identify it for what it really is: False Evidence Appearing Real.
As human beings, we are essentially controlled by two emotions: love and fear. We act out of one or the other. The beautiful thing? We have the ability to choose the thoughts we think and by guided by the emotions we feel. While much of the fear we feel is pre-programmed into us as an instinctual response to potential danger, much of the every day stuff we fear isn’t dangerous at all. We have simply convinced ourselves what we’re fearing is real.
3. Stop watching the news.
Reading and particularly watching the news is hypnotising. Watch enough negative stories and you’ll soon be in fear of walking out of your own front door. If you think about it, I mean really think about it, is there any reason we should repetitively see and hear about stabbings, murders, acts of terrorism and the like? Does it make you feel safer? Does it foster a feeling of love? Of course not, and it’s not meant to. Rather, it invokes a fear response, which in turn makes us hand over our power to those who we think can “save” us, including governments and doctors, when in fact each of us is responsible for our own reality, as well as our own health and wellbeing. If you’re an avid news watcher, put down the remote for two weeks and monitor how different you feel. A study by David L. Altheide states: Fear is bigger news than mere crime or even violence. Fear has become a standard feature of news formats steeped in a problem frame oriented to entertainment. Entertainment abhors ambiguity, while truth and effective intervention efforts to improve social life reside in ambiguity.
4. Research natural healing therapies.
There are natural herbal and homeopathic remedies that can help with overcoming fears. To quote website nativeremedies.com: “Fear becomes a problem that needs to be addressed when it turns into anxiety, panic or phobias. Herbs such as Melissa Officinalis, Lavandula Augustifolia, Chamomile and Passiflora Incarnata are just a few examples of a natural approach to overcoming fears by reducing stress, calming the nervous system and relaxing a fearful mind. Many natural remedies for fear and anxiety combine a number of calming herbs to achieve the best results for overcoming fears and addressing all the different symptoms of a panicked response.” Also explore natural healing treatments such as Reiki, Emotional Freedom Technique and hypnotherapy.
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There are so many good reasons to read the label on any cosmetic product you intend to buy. I used to think, albeit naively, that if a product was for sale then it must have been put through rigorous testing and deemed safe for human use. But alas, that wishful thought was just that—wishful.
Amongst the thousands of cosmetics brands on the market today, a good number contain chemicals toxic to our health. Just like food in the supermarket, if you can’t pronounce a word on a label, chances are it was brewed in a lab not in nature. Many of these ingredients are used as fillers; cheap additions that give the illusion of more product, without hurting the manufacturer’s bottom line.
Just because a lipstick, face cream or the like is expensive also doesn’t mean it’s any safer than the alternative $2 bottle in your local drug store or chemist. In fact, that cheap bottle may be a hundred times safer than the cream that comes in the fancy packaging.
With cosmetic safety regulations lacking in many countries, it’s up to ourselves to be our own judge and jury when it comes to what we’re willing to buy and then put on our skin—our body’s largest organ. Anything you slap on the outside ends up on the inside. If you’ve read this blog before today you’ll be familiar with the phrase: “if you can’t eat it, don’t wear it”.
If you’re starting to wonder exactly what chemicals are lurking in your bathroom cabinet, be sure to check out The Cosmetics Database.
In the book Natural Organic Hair and Skin Care, cosmetic chemist and herbalist Aubrey Hampton is quoted as saying: “Buyers in department, drug, discount and supermarkets don’t know anything about the chemicals that go into cosmetics, and assume their customers don’t know much either.”
These chemicals have only been proven safe with animal testing. If you put them in your product you rely on or accept those tests. Also, many of these chemicals pollute our environment because they aren’t biodegradable. This affects all species. You won’t know this if you don’t read the label.
Besides the cocktail of chemicals that make up many beauty products on the market today, there’s also the very real issue of animal testing. Just because a manufacturer didn’t test on an innocent being, doesn’t mean the manufacturer they bought their chemical ingredients from wasn’t tested on an unsuspecting monkey or rat. What it boils down to? Labels also lie.
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